Markus Lanz clashes with AfD leader Tino Chrupalla

Regarding Russia, the AfD top brass has understood that for years. It was reasonable for ZDF presenter Markus Lanz to explain in more detail the AfD’s foreign and defense policy stance on Tuesday evening. When journalist Justus Bender accused the party of having a “submissive attitude” towards Russia, Tino Chrupalla reacted with great annoyance at the event. Instead of going into more detail about his personal relationship with Russia, he instead tried to find common ground. He explained that the opposition in Germany was now in danger.

When Lanz reacted with annoyance, Chrupalla asked: “Excuse me, didn’t you notice all this?” According to the AfD leader, his party is constantly “accused of treason.” Lanz immediately retorted: “Stop, stop! You must always be careful!” Kremlin critic Vladimir Kara-Mursa was also surprised by the alleged comparison. He said while stunned: “It’s insulting to hear such a thing. Our opposition leader was murdered!”

Tino Chrupalla continued to complain: “Even I was attacked and I don’t know by whom yet.” When the ZDF presenter replied that it was “not the state”, Chrupalla explained: “I don’t know if it was the state. Maybe the services or other people. I don’t know. (…) So you always have to be alert to such things. And we saw how the opposition is currently being handled in Germany.”

The AfD chief further warned that violence against AfD members was increasingly legitimised: “We see it every week.” A good example for Lanz, who immediately spoke to slain Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny and wanted to know if Chrupalla had spoken about him during one of his visits to Russia. The AfD politician denied this and said that Navalny was “not a problem”.

Lanz asked several times: “Why not?” Finally Chrupalla answered: “What’s the use now?” He stressed that Russia “does not currently pose a threat to Germany.” The opinion cannot be expressed by Kremlin critic Vladimir Kara-Mursa, who has survived two brutal poison attacks: “Vladimir Putin is not just a dictator. He is not just an invader. (…) He is also a murderer.”

Tino Chrupalla was not impressed by this and explained: “I think from the point of view of a German politician and what is good for Germany. (…) That’s what I was elected for. And I think that we should try to face the dictatorship too.” The AfD man explained that one can also “criticize” dictatorships.

It was reasonable for Lanz to ask: “What do you criticize about Putin, Mr Chrupalla?” The AfD politician answered briefly: “I of course criticize the war of aggression against Ukraine.” However, there is a “prehistory” to the war, Chrupalla said. Of course, Western countries also made crucial mistakes. Lanz reacted unimpressed and asked if that was the “toughest criticism” of Putin. Chrupalla replied: “He didn’t do anything to me.”

Chrupalla repeated: “I don’t see any threat to Germany from Russia at the moment!” Markus Lanz asked in disbelief: “Nothing?! You didn’t see the hybrid war? (…) Millions of people fleeing?” The AfD politician shook his head: “Every country could be a danger to Germany.” Lanz then fired back with gusto: “That’s a common blah line!”

However, the AfD leader remained firm and said that “Poland could also be a danger for us.” A claim that once again left the moderator speechless: “You’re saying that Poland is potentially as dangerous to Germany as Russia?!” When Chrupalla nodded, Lanz noted that only Russia – especially Putin’s friend Dmitri Medvedev – had “constantly” threatened to use a nuclear bomb. The politician then answered dryly: “Everyone has their own Kiesewetter. And that’s the Russian Kiesewetter.”

Lanz asked irritably: “Are you now comparing Kiesewetter with Medvedev? Are you serious?” Chrupalla replied emphatically: “Why not? Of course! That’s as much propaganda as Mr. Kiesewetter here!” The politician continued to rage: “The hybrid danger arises from so many institutions, from so many countries – not just Russia.”

Futurologist Florence Gaub denied this and said: “We do not have a hybrid attack against Germany from America or France – even from the countries of the NATO alliance. (…) In fact, the current threat situation is clearer than ever.” Nevertheless, Tino Chrupalla explained that the German federal government in particular was risking a “third world war”: “The Chancellor is not even afraid of nuclear war. (…) Statements like this leave me cold as ice.”