This is a big project. Who rethinks the future and must make Germany safer. And this is deep in the Spreewald, where the famous cucumber grows and hundreds of small canals wind through meadows and forests.
Here in Lübbenau, the Schwarz Group, the group behind Lidl and Kaufland, will lay the foundation stone for Germany’s largest data center tomorrow. Digital Minister Karsten Wildberger has announced himself and of course the developers: Rolf Schumann (45) and Christian Müller (48), two CEOs of Schwarz Digits, the group’s digital division.
BILD met with two top managers to discuss.
BILD am Sonntag: What exactly is being built in Lübbenau?
Rolf Schumann: “In the age of AI, we need a place where large amounts of data can be processed. That’s why we are building a 13-hectare data center. It will house more than a hundred thousand latest generation graphics chips, one alone the size of a pizza box.”
Their giant AI data center is intended to make Germany more digitally independent: Rolf Schumann (left) and Christian Müller, both CEOs
Why would you invest in the beautiful Spreewald of all places? So far in the East, despite the Russian conflict.
Christian Muller: “I know the area well, I grew up in Cottbus. With Kaufland we have been rooted in Lübbenau for many years. And of course we think about every location. But the problem is no longer the physical threat from weapons systems, but a hybrid threat – and it knows no borders, such as sabotage and cyber security.”
How much money is invested in this mega project?
Muller: “Total investment in the region is 11 billion euros. Data centers should be ready by the end of 2027.”
How many people will work there and what do they do there?
Schumann: “We primarily need security personnel and gardeners on site. Most jobs are created based on data calculations. Data centers are central locations, which is why we often talk about giant factories. The real implementation happens where our talent, our industry experts, are.”
In BILD Talk: The two top managers talk with BILD boss Robert Schneider and BILD business manager Patricia Platiel about Germany’s largest data center, data sovereignty and the digital vision of the Schwarz Group
How much energy does a data center like this require and where does it come from? The criticism that is often leveled is: It’s definitely too much…
Muller: “The biggest use is energy for cooling. This produces waste heat and we want to feed this waste heat into the district heating network so that an ecological cycle is created. There are already contracts for this.”
Schumann: In other words: When waste heat is generated in data centers, it is converted into district heating – so that 75,000 households can be supplied with district heating. That’s why we decided not to build on a greenfield site, but rather on a so-called Brownsfield (industrial wasteland), an existing coal-fired power plant. We want to show that the 20,000 cubic meters of concrete and 110,000 tons of steel built here can be recycled. This will be the case where legacy power plants are incorporated into our materials cycle.”
It will look like this: The illustration shows the plan of the Schwarz Group data center in Lübbenau (Spreewald). One of Europe’s largest and most modern data centers will be built there on an area of around 13 hectares by 2027 – with more than 100,000 high-performance processors for cloud, AI and data applications from the digital division of Schwarz Digits
Is the data only calculated for Lidl and Kaufland in Lübbenau – or also for other companies?
Muller: “Both and. We invest from our own resources and we build data centers especially for our needs. And this number continues to increase every day. This is also obvious, considering the size of the group of companies.”
Give us some numbers to understand this?
Muller: “600,000 employees, 14,200 branches, spread across 32 countries around the world. We also have our own IT, we do everything ourselves – 10,000 employees are mostly there to make sure that our IT works for the entire Schwarz Group.”
You developed your own cloud years ago. How did a food company with “STACKIT” suddenly become a cloud provider that is now used by other companies around the world, such as NASDAQ?
Muller: “There are various reasons for this. Great independence has always been part of the Schwarz Group’s DNA. However: In the digital world you become increasingly dependent, usually on American or Asian manufacturers. Data is the oil of the 21st century, the new code that contains all knowledge. And ultimately you want data to be stored in a place where the laws and values are identical to those of your company.”
Schumann: “There was an initial moment: We designed a product abroad to sell in our branches. However, a domestic brand supplier argued that our packaging was too similar to its branded product. Foreign authorities then confiscated all our servers that we had there. And although the process was unsuccessful, it was at that point that we said: We have to do something. If we store our data in the cloud, then it is in Germany and German law counts. 2017 That’s why we started developing our own cloud.”
What exactly is stored in this cloud?
Schumann: “First and foremost, our entire process chain: goods, prices. And customer data from loyalty programs, such as LidlPLUS.”
And what do customers get from it?
Muller: “Everyone has the right to know who is accessing their data and what is happening with that data. Because if you have the data, you can use it to train AI models, so knowledge is lost and protection is lost. We want to promise our customers that only what has been previously agreed upon will happen to their purchasing data, such as personalized offers. So ads from other people will not appear at any point in time.”
From a consumer perspective: Why is your data safe? What supports companies taking action on data security themselves, and what role does the state play?
Schumann: “The state creates the framework conditions and we are an independent, owner-managed company. Fortunately, we live in Europe, in Germany – with general data protection regulations. Let’s put it bluntly: in China the state regulates, in the US the state regulates technology companies, and in Europe we have a loose basic rule that the data belongs to the author.”
So, is digital sovereignty patriotic?
Schumann: “What is the greatest resource we have in Germany? It is our knowledge, our education. If you use this education, generate knowledge, have business ideas – then you should not give it away. (…) We believe in our talent, we believe in the company and our knowledge. That is why it is so important to protect this basic core, and that is only possible if you store your data in a place where you know who has access.”
Muller: “What is the greatest benefit of freedom? Self-determination. But that is only possible if I decide what happens to my data. We want to have the freedom to leave the negotiating table at any time, we always want to discuss with equality.”
Schumann: “Especially in the current geopolitical situation, the big issue is survivability. Simply put: If I’m 100 percent dependent and someone turns something off – then it’s no longer there, and then the data is lost. You also have to be prepared for this possibility.”
What is the status of Germany’s digital sovereignty? Set school grades.
Schumann: “That’s not enough. But it’s quite simple: If a crisis occurs, we still want to open branches and supply food to the population.”
Many Europeans complain about strict and bureaucratic data protection…
Muller: “Data protection makes sense – it’s just that the way it’s interpreted is sometimes less than pragmatic. But it helps protect our basic values.
This is already happening – do you know an example?
Schumann: “There are thousands of cyberattacks every day. For example, we have a mid-sized customer, which is the company Schunk, the world market leader in clamping and gripping technology. Grabbers like this are in car construction, production and manufacturing systems. And they told us: We know that these grippers have all been copied.
Do you see the future of the Schwarz Group as a new technology group in Europe, and not on supermarket shelves?
Schumann: “The core of the Schwarz Group is retail. With the strong Lidl and Kaufland brands, nothing will change. Trading is change and very innovative.”
Muller: “Trade and digitalization go hand in hand.”
Schumann: “And Germany has to become more digital because we have a demographic problem. We believe in its location. Because we have a lot of talent in Germany. (…) There is no reason to be pessimistic. Germany is a country of engineers. The next big trend that will change the world is quantum computers.”
Muller: “There are a lot of German start-ups in this field. So we won’t miss this train, this train won’t leave the station without us if we do it smartly. Quantum computing will hopefully be German.”
Can you explain quantum computing in simple words?
Schumann: “It’s a next-generation computer that doesn’t compute linearly, but exponentially. We can’t even imagine its computing power, so tasks can be completed faster.”
Muller: “AI and quantum computers will be two inseparable things. Some people will say: It’s like going from a horse to a car. No! It’s like going from a horse to a moon rocket.”
